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	<title>Comments on: Bioshock 2 And The Big Daddy Experience</title>
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	<link>http://www.narrativeflood.com/2010/bioshock-2-and-the-big-daddy-experience</link>
	<description>A light-hearted look at the world of story and writing in games</description>
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		<title>By: Bret</title>
		<link>http://www.narrativeflood.com/2010/bioshock-2-and-the-big-daddy-experience#comment-32</link>
		<dc:creator>Bret</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:17:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.narrativeflood.com/?p=280#comment-32</guid>
		<description>I thought it was a magic bag of vomit that Bad Day LA used.

Learn something every day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought it was a magic bag of vomit that Bad Day LA used.</p>
<p>Learn something every day.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.narrativeflood.com/2010/bioshock-2-and-the-big-daddy-experience#comment-31</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Feb 2010 19:56:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.narrativeflood.com/?p=280#comment-31</guid>
		<description>Incidentally, the Bioshock 2 soundtrack is up on Spotify. For some reason they&#039;ve called it &lt;a href=&quot;spotify:album:7eo4Qx3hqaBWUzYTdJGadT&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Music From And Inspired By The Game&lt;/a&gt;, even though it&#039;s all classic jazz and blues. From this, I think we have to assume that Bioshock 2 is so visionary, so influential, its very essence travelled back in time and hit Noel Coward, Fred Astaire, Billie Holiday and more in the back of the next with a magic drill.

And what other games can say that?

Answer: Only American McGee&#039;s Bad Day LA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Incidentally, the Bioshock 2 soundtrack is up on Spotify. For some reason they&#8217;ve called it <a href="spotify:album:7eo4Qx3hqaBWUzYTdJGadT" rel="nofollow">Music From And Inspired By The Game</a>, even though it&#8217;s all classic jazz and blues. From this, I think we have to assume that Bioshock 2 is so visionary, so influential, its very essence travelled back in time and hit Noel Coward, Fred Astaire, Billie Holiday and more in the back of the next with a magic drill.</p>
<p>And what other games can say that?</p>
<p>Answer: Only American McGee&#8217;s Bad Day LA.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.narrativeflood.com/2010/bioshock-2-and-the-big-daddy-experience#comment-30</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Feb 2010 18:05:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.narrativeflood.com/?p=280#comment-30</guid>
		<description>Bomberman or obese, dead wrestler? Hell of a call.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bomberman or obese, dead wrestler? Hell of a call.</p>
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		<title>By: Chicknstu</title>
		<link>http://www.narrativeflood.com/2010/bioshock-2-and-the-big-daddy-experience#comment-29</link>
		<dc:creator>Chicknstu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Feb 2010 18:02:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.narrativeflood.com/?p=280#comment-29</guid>
		<description>The whole &#039;father figure&#039; tone was kind of damaged for me, by the fact that I was playing as Bomberman.

Damn that un-unseeable image.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The whole &#8216;father figure&#8217; tone was kind of damaged for me, by the fact that I was playing as Bomberman.</p>
<p>Damn that un-unseeable image.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.narrativeflood.com/2010/bioshock-2-and-the-big-daddy-experience#comment-24</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 23:42:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.narrativeflood.com/?p=280#comment-24</guid>
		<description>I agree on the meta-commentary element, disagree on the creators not having the skills. They played it too safe in a number of ways, but they had a pretty hellish project on their hands. Ideally, Bioshock would have been another equally fantastic location. Whether they decided to stick with Rapture or were ordered to make another game there, I don&#039;t know, but with the first game so comprehensive about its fall and its big moment so famous, I&#039;m not surprised they hung close and steered clear respectively.

With the exception of Lamb, who I just found smug and annoying, I think the basic structure holds together reasonably well. The first game was much, much more fractured - the business with the sub near the start, the unconvincing way that Fontaine brings Jack to the city in the first place, the completely sealed off mini-storylines in places like Fort Frolic... it relied on the atmosphere to hold it together, but when you looked back on it, it was a bit of a mess. A brilliant idea, a glorious setting, I love Bioshock to pieces, but ultimately pretty incoherent. Even the mind control element is pretty comprehensively broken by the way that the game doesn&#039;t change even slightly once you&#039;re freed of it, and even then, Fontaine never really uses it. I did a video shortly after it came out, showing the scene where Atlas demands you give him control of Rapture, which is just Jack standing there for centuries, followed by a shot of a gravestone reading &quot;Died Telling Ken Levine To Suck It&quot;. (Not subtle, but I know from my server logs that some folks at Irrational liked it)

Bioshock 2 clearly shares the &#039;design poured onto an awesome location&#039; design style, but its vignettes connect up far better, it doesn&#039;t rely as much on gimmicks to sell its plot points, and  it does a much better job at selling most of its locations as places that could actually have worked. In the first game for instance, there&#039;s no way that Arcadia could actually have been the Centre Parcs of Rapture - it&#039;s far too small. Bioshock 2 makes much better use of its space - even if it&#039;s still cramped, areas like Pauper&#039;s Drop and Siren Alley convey the illusion of civilisation. Likewise, in the chaotic world of Bioshock 1, there&#039;s no way the Splicer society could have survived, which gets dealt with by adding the Family, and scenes like the church or the talk with Grace that show that there is some semblence of culture down here when everyone&#039;s not trying to rip out the interloper&#039;s throat.

It does have problems. A lot of them. It&#039;s very confused over exactly who is part of the Family and who are just regular Splicers, or if there&#039;s even any difference. Tenenbaum just vanishing after her cameo appearance is really stupid. Sofia Lamb is a cretin. But overall, while it&#039;s both less arty and less inspiring as a story than Bioshock&#039;s initial tale of how Rapture fell and the factions that tore it up, I&#039;d say it actually holds together much better as a plot. It definitely helps though if you can think of Eleanor as the main character rather than Subject Delta - at heart, it&#039;s her story, not yours, in much the same way as the first game was about Rapture and its collapse much more than Jack&#039;s brainwashed adventures in the ruins.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree on the meta-commentary element, disagree on the creators not having the skills. They played it too safe in a number of ways, but they had a pretty hellish project on their hands. Ideally, Bioshock would have been another equally fantastic location. Whether they decided to stick with Rapture or were ordered to make another game there, I don&#8217;t know, but with the first game so comprehensive about its fall and its big moment so famous, I&#8217;m not surprised they hung close and steered clear respectively.</p>
<p>With the exception of Lamb, who I just found smug and annoying, I think the basic structure holds together reasonably well. The first game was much, much more fractured &#8211; the business with the sub near the start, the unconvincing way that Fontaine brings Jack to the city in the first place, the completely sealed off mini-storylines in places like Fort Frolic&#8230; it relied on the atmosphere to hold it together, but when you looked back on it, it was a bit of a mess. A brilliant idea, a glorious setting, I love Bioshock to pieces, but ultimately pretty incoherent. Even the mind control element is pretty comprehensively broken by the way that the game doesn&#8217;t change even slightly once you&#8217;re freed of it, and even then, Fontaine never really uses it. I did a video shortly after it came out, showing the scene where Atlas demands you give him control of Rapture, which is just Jack standing there for centuries, followed by a shot of a gravestone reading &#8220;Died Telling Ken Levine To Suck It&#8221;. (Not subtle, but I know from my server logs that some folks at Irrational liked it)</p>
<p>Bioshock 2 clearly shares the &#8216;design poured onto an awesome location&#8217; design style, but its vignettes connect up far better, it doesn&#8217;t rely as much on gimmicks to sell its plot points, and  it does a much better job at selling most of its locations as places that could actually have worked. In the first game for instance, there&#8217;s no way that Arcadia could actually have been the Centre Parcs of Rapture &#8211; it&#8217;s far too small. Bioshock 2 makes much better use of its space &#8211; even if it&#8217;s still cramped, areas like Pauper&#8217;s Drop and Siren Alley convey the illusion of civilisation. Likewise, in the chaotic world of Bioshock 1, there&#8217;s no way the Splicer society could have survived, which gets dealt with by adding the Family, and scenes like the church or the talk with Grace that show that there is some semblence of culture down here when everyone&#8217;s not trying to rip out the interloper&#8217;s throat.</p>
<p>It does have problems. A lot of them. It&#8217;s very confused over exactly who is part of the Family and who are just regular Splicers, or if there&#8217;s even any difference. Tenenbaum just vanishing after her cameo appearance is really stupid. Sofia Lamb is a cretin. But overall, while it&#8217;s both less arty and less inspiring as a story than Bioshock&#8217;s initial tale of how Rapture fell and the factions that tore it up, I&#8217;d say it actually holds together much better as a plot. It definitely helps though if you can think of Eleanor as the main character rather than Subject Delta &#8211; at heart, it&#8217;s her story, not yours, in much the same way as the first game was about Rapture and its collapse much more than Jack&#8217;s brainwashed adventures in the ruins.</p>
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		<title>By: qrter</title>
		<link>http://www.narrativeflood.com/2010/bioshock-2-and-the-big-daddy-experience#comment-23</link>
		<dc:creator>qrter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 23:21:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.narrativeflood.com/?p=280#comment-23</guid>
		<description>I got the cyclone plasmid after I freed all the Little Sisters. Doh. That would&#039;ve been useful much earlier. It even made me think how perhaps you should be given the first cyclone plasmid, like you are given the first electric one.

The thing that always impressed me about the first BioShock is the clean and simple commentary it gave on your role as a player - most of the time blindly doing things in games because you&#039;re told to (and because you&#039;re playing a game, ofcourse). You can only make such a point once and you have to have such a grand point to make in the first place, but that&#039;s why the first BioShock will always tower over BioShock 2 for me. (I acknowledge this is rather unfair - like I said, I never expected BS2 to have a bit of meta-commentary in it, then again, I never saw BioShock as a franchise.)

The one real thing I have against BS2 is that the storytelling is awfully muddled and downright clumsy, at times. It generally feels like a game thought up by someone completely enamored of the first game, breathlessly trying to emulate it but without having the real skills to hit the same depths.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I got the cyclone plasmid after I freed all the Little Sisters. Doh. That would&#8217;ve been useful much earlier. It even made me think how perhaps you should be given the first cyclone plasmid, like you are given the first electric one.</p>
<p>The thing that always impressed me about the first BioShock is the clean and simple commentary it gave on your role as a player &#8211; most of the time blindly doing things in games because you&#8217;re told to (and because you&#8217;re playing a game, ofcourse). You can only make such a point once and you have to have such a grand point to make in the first place, but that&#8217;s why the first BioShock will always tower over BioShock 2 for me. (I acknowledge this is rather unfair &#8211; like I said, I never expected BS2 to have a bit of meta-commentary in it, then again, I never saw BioShock as a franchise.)</p>
<p>The one real thing I have against BS2 is that the storytelling is awfully muddled and downright clumsy, at times. It generally feels like a game thought up by someone completely enamored of the first game, breathlessly trying to emulate it but without having the real skills to hit the same depths.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.narrativeflood.com/2010/bioshock-2-and-the-big-daddy-experience#comment-20</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:42:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.narrativeflood.com/?p=280#comment-20</guid>
		<description>The combat is a massive improvement. Same concepts, but much better handled (if very short on ammo). Cyclone Traps are particularly awesome fun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The combat is a massive improvement. Same concepts, but much better handled (if very short on ammo). Cyclone Traps are particularly awesome fun.</p>
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		<title>By: Rain</title>
		<link>http://www.narrativeflood.com/2010/bioshock-2-and-the-big-daddy-experience#comment-19</link>
		<dc:creator>Rain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:38:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.narrativeflood.com/?p=280#comment-19</guid>
		<description>What?! There are spoilers after the first part!!!

Gonna look at this after I played it. From what I read about Bioshock 2 so far I&#039;m going to like this more than the first part, at least gameplay wise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What?! There are spoilers after the first part!!!</p>
<p>Gonna look at this after I played it. From what I read about Bioshock 2 so far I&#8217;m going to like this more than the first part, at least gameplay wise.</p>
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